Saturday, October 29, 2011

Mini-E Diary, June 12th 2009: Driving on Sunshine

It's getting to be sentimental time as I contemplate returning Mini-E #183 in a few weeks and accepting the new BMW ActiveE. What was supposed to be a one year test drive for me, has turned into a guy-car love affair with the Mini-E over 2.5 years and has resulted in an altered view on life and our future.

 Nearing the end of the Mini-E trial, I once again love cars and the joy of driving, that passion was lost for over 20 years. My views on our collective future are very optimistic as I can see a clear path towards energy independence, cleaner and healthier cities and a much lower cost of driving.

For me, the Mini-E is more than just a hugely successful field trial of a car technology, it is an answer to questions far beyond just the car, that have concerned me about our future.

I am sure we will love our ActiveE; however the Mini-E will always be the car that altered my views on driving fun and an optimistic future. It belongs in a museum like the San Diego Automotive Museum, if it can no longer stay in my garage.

The Mini-E is the best and most fun car I have driven in my 34 years in the driver’s seat. I have driven the Mini-E more miles per year than any other car in those 34 years. So much for range anxiety and a limited functionality.

After two and half years and 34,000 miles, the words of my first post in June 2009 (see below) still ring true, a deeper truth based on a longer tenure.

Put that magic in a bottle and sell it to the world BMW.

June, 12th, 2009

WEEK 1: The tires struggle to maintain their thin connection to asphalt as you mash the pedal to the floor, racing down the freeway onramp from 20mph to 80mph in a knats breath of time. BMW/Mini has detuned the drive train so as not to let their drivers do something really stupid, or break the test mule that is the Mini Cooper. The car is on the perpetual edge of control, tires sounding off, steering wheel twitching as there is so much power and torque in that speed range.

The car is ultra responsive letting you get a little out of line but not to far as BMW has the Dynamic Stability Control permanently on (smart move on their part.) You are not driving a typical small car and the sooner you realize that you have a beast underneath you that requires your full attention as if on a race track, the better off you are.

Cruising the freeway at 60 you turn off the stereo so you can hear the quiet. You decide to pass a truck. Damn! That is the first thought that comes to mind as in ‘torque now” and loads of it as the car aggressively assumes the spot in front of the truck.

Before I go any farther, I should clarify that it is very easy to drive the Mini-E like a regular car, really no different than a gas car, (except no gas, brake pads, rotors, oil changes, transmission work ….) and you don’t need what it can give you in spades to simple cruise from point A to point B. Why would you drive like that? OK now that the “car is normal” disclaimer is over, back to the fun world!

Driving as an enthusiast the car gets about 90 miles per charge with 10 miles in reserve. Driving freeway speeds 65 to 75, the car gets 110 miles per charge and in the city about 130 to 140. Charging at home is an hour to a couple of hours typical as I plug the car in a 50% or lower state of charge. A quick 30 minute top off gives me an additional 25 miles.

I have range anxiety!

In my G35 I drove about 18 mile a day, In My Mini-E I drive about 80 miles a day, I am anxious that I may never be able to drive the short range of 18 miles again. It’s a trip to Space Mountain only ten times better every morning as I simply must sneak in a 20 minute drive around the lagoon on twisty roads while the wife is in the bath preparing for her work day.

Driving around the lagoon which is located on the Pacific Flyway migratory bird route, you literally hear the birds! It is an unreal experience to drive on a fun twisty road with windows down and hear the birds! OK it sounds corny but when you drive full electric new experiences come to your senses and you notice them immediately.

I’m driving on sunshine, sunshine that powers my home and provides the sun fuel for my Mini-E. Try that in a gas car!

I am liberated, dependent no longer on the mandatory drug of oil from foreign land. I invite you to join me. For more info on the car and home, http://www.heronshouse.com/

Tuesday, October 25, 2011

Thanks for reading and commenting!

A record day yesterday for this blog.  More and more people are interested in electric cars such as the Mini-E and they're  interested in saving energy and energy security.  Thanks for reading, it's why I write :)

Sunday, October 23, 2011

Solar Energy Beats Gasoline By A “Clean Country Mile” It takes a lot of energy to make gas... Part three.

Continuing on with my financial analysis of the energy cost to power gasoline and electric cars.

As you know by now, I power my BMW Electric Mini-E by solar energy. I drive on sunshine. My overall system size is 7.5kw and that system powers both our home and car. It is a balanced energy use and energy generation solution, We generate 11,700KWH a year and we use 11,700KWH per year.

Each KW of a solar PV system cost approximately $3700 when part of an average sized residential system. The space required for that one KW is about 60 sq feet, about half the size of a small bedroom.

In California and other sunshine states, that one KW will generate approximately 1550KWHs of electricity annually. The solar PV warranty is 25 years, thus generating 38,750Kwhs over the 25 years. It should be noted that there is a slight degradation of annual generation over that time, and that one inverter replacement will most likely be needed as well. However the system will last a far greater lifetime than the 25 years of warranty (think of a pane of glass and how long that last) so we are going to call those data points a push.

The cost of driving an electric car powered by sunshine 7,750 miles per year.

Electric cars are evolving quickly, electric cars such as the Mini-E are returning between 3.5 and 4.25 miles per kwh. The upcoming BMW i3  will be pushing the 5 miles per Kwh threshold. For this analysis, as it looks at the next 25 years of driving, we will assume a 5 miles per Kwh efficiency.

5 miles per kwh multiplied by 38750 KWHs equal 193,750 miles driven for the energy cost of $3700. This works out to to 7,750 miles per year, and a cost of $148 per year, per kw of generation. It also provides absolute certainty of energy cost, as the sun never increases it’s price.

The cost of driving 7,750 mile per year powered by gasoline.

Over 25 years the gas at today’s mpg efficiency, a car travelling 7750 miles per year will consume 8800 gallons of fuel. Using the US fleet average of 22mpg, driving 7750 miles a year, a gasoline car will consume 352 gallons of gas or $1442 for the first year at $4.00 per gallon. And no you’re not reading this wrong, a solar pv system cost is the same or less than buying gasoline for three years ($3700 total cost for solar vs. $1422 annual cost for gasoline.).The next 22 years of driving the EV are on the "house of the rising sun" :)

Let’s be generous and assume that the gasoline car fleet averages 40 mpg during the next 25 years beginning at 22mpg of today and ending at 60mpg in 25 years, That would be an average of 194 gallons annually and 4850 gallons of fuel for the nest 25 years. With a modest multiplier of 3% annually for the increase in gas prices you’re looking at $35,000 in fuel cost for the next 25 years. If gas prices and cars maintain their current 22mpg fleet average, that number would be approaching $80,000. If crazy stuff happens in the oil supplying regions and  global consumption increases dramatically, your guess is as good as mine. This is the uncertainty of energy cost.

To summarize,

At a fleet average of 40mpg, a gasoline car will use 4850 gallons of gasoline which will cost $35,000 to drive  7750 miles per year for the next 25 years

An Electric car driving on Solar will require 60 sq. ft. of space, $3,700 in cost to drive  7,750 miles per year for the next 25 years.

"The answer my friend, is blowin in the wind." The answer is the ""sunshine on my shoulders."  It cost 1/10th (and is dropping in price) as compared to gasoline.

Cheers

Peder

Mini-E #183, 34,000 sunshine powered miles.

Song title credits:
The Animals
Bob Dylan
John Denver

Tuesday, October 18, 2011

It takes a lot of “Energy” to make gas... Part Two.

I used coal in the title of the first post as a cheeky reference to the favored argument by EV naysayers that electric cars replace a tailpipe with emissions from a coal powered electricity plant.

They still might want to look in the mirror :)

The previous blog post has been picked up by Autoblog Green and by the Washington Post and dozens of other sites.  This has led to well over 100 comments from individuals debating the statistic  and offering input as to how much electricity and how much energy is required to make a gallon of gas.

Some agree with my conclusions some don’t.   Some say it’s higher some say its lower.   All kinds of data is offered in the comments usually with several zero’s behind it,  cherry picked data depending on the  point of view of the author pro or con.

I wish there were an Energy information Agency FAQ that answered this simple question, How much energy is used to make a gallon of gasoline?

Unfortunately there is not a simple answer and it’s very complicated to find the information to make a compelling case either way. The various nature and different qualities  of crude and the various efficiencies of refineries add to the complexity.

So let’s keep this simple shall we?

Step 1
Let’s begin with the price of a gallon of gas and the percentage of that that goes to refining.   According to the Energy Information Agency on this page http://www.eia.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp
16% of the August 2011 gallon of gas cost of $3.64 goes to refining cost thus  resulting in $0.58  a gallon in refining cost.

Step 2
According to the EPA and the Petroleum energy guide on this page
(abstract page 3, first paragraph) Refineries spend typically 50% of cash operating costs (i.e.,, excluding capital costs and depreciation) on energy,

So we have 50% energy cost for a refinery, which would result in a cost of energy to make a gallon of gas of $0.29  per gallon.

From here we split off into energy types or feedstocks used to make gasoline.

Step 3
According to the Energy Information Agency, http://205.254.135.24/emeu/mecs/iab98/petroleum/expenditures.html
Just less than  50% of the energy cost come from Natural Gas and about 33% come from electricity,  Also much energy is generated by co-generation, with an undisclosed amount of Natural Gas used to provide electricity for the refinery.

Using the energy cost to refine  of $0.29 and dividing that by 33% gives you $0.10 of electricity cost per gallon of gas.

Step 4 What do refineries pay for electricity and energy?  Good question.  The most they would pay is the wholesale cost of electricity. 

As an energy plant owner myself that has over generated for the year, SDG&E is paying me 3.7 cents per Kwh of generation . You can bet the power plants pay between two and three cents per KWH.


Congratulations, you were a net energy generator!
Account Number: 582687++++
You generated more electricity than you consumed when you trued-up earlier this year. As a result your Net Energy Metering (NEM) account will be credited for the excess generation.

Excess generation:
1607 kilowatt-hours (kwhrs)
Credit per kwhr:
0.03692
Amount Credited:
$59.93



With a cost of $0.03 cents a kwh we can come to the conclusion that refineries use around 3 kwh of electricity per gallon of gasoline. 
Furthermore, refineries have nearly 50% of their energy cost in Natural Gas, about $0.14 cents per gallon, If that Natural gas were used in a plant to make electricity an additional 2kwh of electricity per gallon would result for a net total of 5 kwhs of electricity per gallon of gas. 

Using these simple government non biased information websites of the US Energy Information Agency and the EPA, as well as my own payment from SDG&E, the information resulted in a 5kwh of electricity used  to make a gallon of gas. Not to far off of my original estimate of 6kwh per gallon of gas.   Throw in unknown energy cost to extract, pump, ship, store, truck and sell, I am confident an additional kwh or two would be added to that figure.

I stand by original conclusion that a gas car with an average fleet 22mpg will use more electricity (or if you prefer, electricity equivalent in energy units) used just in the refinery process to drive 100 miles as compared to an electric car.



Add to the discussion, what do you say?  

Cheers
Peder

Mini-E # 183, 34,000 sunshine powered miles.

Friday, October 7, 2011

It takes a lot of coal to make gasoline


BP Oil refinery in Long Beach California

Quick draw critics of the electric car often (miss their target) criticize EV’s because in their words “Electric cars simply replace a tail pipe with a smokestack” The gist of their argument is that the emissions still occur, not at the tail pipe but at the electric power plant. That great observation is usually followed by the statement that 45% of our grid electricity is coal and coal is dirty thus the EV provides no net gain.

The critics may want to look in the mirror…..or in their garage.

In California, refineries are the second largest users of electricity. Moving water around the state via water authorities is the single largest user of electricity. You guessed it, refining crude also takes a tremendous amount of water!

It is a simple fact that just the refining of gasoline requires approximately 6 kwh of electricity per gallon of gasoline. In fact electricity and natural gas cost are estimated to be 43% of the US oil refineries total expenses. If you tack on the energy required to extract and transport the oil to the refinery and then to the gas stations as well as the energy cost of the gas station, I’m sure that number jumps a few more kwh per gallon.

So let’s be conservative and cut the oil guys a break and say it takes 8kwh to extract, ship, refine and transport each gallon of gas.

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.  Drum roll…….

It takes more electricity to drive the average gasoline car 100 miles, than it does to drive an electric car 100 miles. A gas car at the US fleet average of 21mpg will consume approximately five gallons of gasoline which took 40kwh (5 times 8)of electricity to make, to drive 100 miles. An electric car will use approximately 30 kwh of electricity (3.3 miles per kwh) to drive the same 100 miles.

In summary,

Gas cars use more electricity than EV’s, thus polluting at the smokestack, They burn that refined gasoline in a very inefficient engine, thus polluting at the tailpipe. In our large urban cities in the US, the emissions caused by our transportation fleet accounts for 70% or greater of our man made emissions and visible particulate matter (smog) and related health care cost. Think of that as smoking two packs of cigs.

Electric cars run on electricity created by a mixture of energy sources. Many electric car drivers like myself quickly discover that making your own via solar PV is the best and cheapest way to fuel (about $0.40 per gallon of gas equivalent) Think of that cleaning up the air in our major cities, saving money and as not smoking,

Cheers

Peder

Mini-E #183, 33,000 solar powered miles

Source material below.

Petroleum Refining:

The United States uses more petroleum than any other energy source. Petroleum provides the U.S. with about 37 percent of the energy we use each year. Petroleum can’t be used as it comes out of the ground. It must be refined before it can be used.

Oil refineries use a lot of energy to convert crude oil into gasoline, diesel fuel, heating oil, chemicals, and other products. Almost half of a refinery’s operating costs (43 percent) is for energy. (US Energy Information Administration)

In a 2008 report, Argonne National Lab estimated that the efficiency for producing gasoline of an “average” U.S. petroleum refinery is between 84% and 88% (Wang, 2008), and Oak Ridge National Lab reports that the net energy content of oil is approximately 132,000 Btu per gallon (Davis, 2009). It is commonly known that a barrel of crude oil generate approximately 45 gallons of refined product (refer to NAS, 2009, Table 3-4 for a publication stating so). Thus, using an 85% refinery efficiency and the aforementioned conversion factors, it can be estimated that about 21,000 Btu—the equivalent of 6 kWh—of energy are used per gallon of gasoline refined:


The documents referenced are as follows:

US Energy Information Administration

http://205.254.135.24/tools/faqs/

Wang, M. (2008), “Estimation of Energy Efficiencies of U.S. Petroleum Refineries,” Center for Transportation Research, Argonne National Laboratory, www.transportation.anl.gov/modeling_simulation/GREET/pdfs/energy_eff_petroleum_refineries-03-08.pdf

Davis, S., Susan W. Diegel, and Robert G. Boundy (2009), Transportation Energy Data Book, edition 28, National Transportation Research Center, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, cta.ornl.gov/data/

NAS (2009), Hidden Costs of Energy: Unpriced Consequences of Energy Production and Use, The National Academies Press, www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=12794&page=1

Tuesday, September 27, 2011

Dufass and the Mini-E. D’OH!


A disclaimer, it’s my fault, not the car, and my family will be “lashing” me for years.

Mini-E #183 and I have had a wonderful relationship the past 33,000 miles and 2.5 years. It’s been a relatively event free time, which is amazing considering the Mini-E is out in the wild in the hands of drivers like me D’OH! with no or little infrastructure to rely on.

I’ve had three driver error events, two in the past. and one this past weekend.

First about two years ago, was the combination of my hard working schedule and a string of appearances at events the same evening. I arrived home at midnight and forgot to plug in the car. The next morning I had a Planning Commission meeting with a roundtrip of 80 miles and only 40 miles of range on the car. I groveled to my brother and borrowed his gas car for the day. He was merciless in his mockery of “Mr. Electricity Was Better.” The Solution to this problem is a simple web interface and smart phone application so that you can check, be alerted by text message, to insure you are plugged in for the night, this is standard on all new electrics. The Mini-E has no such communication so my brother made a plaque as a gift to me. D’OH!

Second, about 1 year ago, My race car cousin was visiting from Denmark (to see an Indy car race and a NASCAR race in the USA) I was down at my parents, an 80 mile roundtrip, and he asked to take the car around the block. About 20 minutes later he brought the car back with a huge grin on his face. I could smell the burnt rubber, he had some serious fun and depleted my battery to 30%. Nonetheless, I thought I could make it home D’OH! I came up about a mile short, (BMW you don’t want to know how I got the car home ) The solution to this problem is not to let your race crazy Danish cousin drive your car!

This past Saturday I made my third mistake D’oh! It was the compound accumulation of three error’s in judgment.

Saturday evening I was to attend my friend Chris’s birthday party, about a 75 mile roundtrip in the Mini-E to a rural area of San Diego County. Earlier that morning I had made a run to Home Depot and another garden store and used about 10% of my battery, no problems, no need to plug in as the 75 miles is a piece of cake with 90% battery. Error #1 D’OH Always recharge when you have the chance!

I rely heavily on the GPS map in my smart phone. I program in the destination and keep the blue dot on the purple line. I arrived at the party about 15 miles east of Hwy 15 and had a great time. As I left the party, I realized I had no cell connection but hey no problem, I’ll just follow the blue dot backwards. I drove about 15 miles expecting to come up on the Hwy 15 and I still had no cell reception thus the blue dot did not move! I pulled over and tried a compass app on the cell phone, It does not work without a connection! I kept driving and 5 miles later I found myself in Ramona, 35 miles east of Hwy 15! I had gone the wrong way over 20 miles! Now I had range anxiety, I was 45 miles from home and only 32 miles of range left. How I missed that 10% of range that I used in the morning. If I had recharged in the morning, I would have had enough range to get home. Error # 2, Don’t rely solely on technology! D’OH! (BMW please tell me there is a compass in the ActiveE and the I-3

So who you gonna call? Mom and Dad. I could make it to their home about 20 miles away. I could charge for a few hours and then drive home. But…..D’OH! I did not carry my 110 cable with me, it was at home. Error # 3 always carry the 110 emergency charging cable with you, you know, just in case you have an emergency. D’OH!

I had to borrow my sisters giant GMC and drive home to get the cable. The next morning I came back with the cord, recharged the car during the Sunday Football games, and suffered endless merciless barbs at the hands of my several siblings. It was awful! At 4pm I drove home, me and my Mini-E, all was good.

The worst part of the whole story, I had to put $80 in gas in the GMC monster SUV. 20 gallons of gas to get from ¼ tank to full. Ouch!

D’OH!
Cheers
Peder
Mini-E # 183  33,000 sunshine powered miles, driven by a Dufass.

Post Script,
Lest you think this post has in any way exposed a weakness in the electric car, be assured that my driving errors in gas cars were equal to the electric car and in some cases were much greater…..like the 350 mile 5 hour driving error by the two smartest guys in the world. That story shall wait :)




Tuesday, September 6, 2011

The Supremacy of Electric Cars, the Misguided Tea Party.

It’s been very interesting as a generator of renewable energy (7.5kw solar PV) and as a driver of EV’s powered by the sun, to read about the “Top Ten”…, or the five reasons why…, or the 12 things you need to know…. post’s regarding electric mobility. Most of these writings are focused on the perceived and in fairness, real short comings of today’s electric car, often written by folks who have never experienced the joy of driving an electric car (more than a test drive.)


Not to get too political, but as a lifelong conservative, I am shocked at the Tea Party’s response to these innovations and advancements that offer independence, self reliance, improved health, jobs and wealth creation, as well as military strategic benefits, while ignoring long standing government subsidies to oil, gasoline cars (cash for clunkers) and the related dependencies and cost (protection of oil) that have the net result in the exportation of our nation’s wealth.

Promoting the idea of $2.00 gas for all Americans is in my view promoting the decline of America, the decay of our car companies, the exportation of our wealth and the degradation of the health of our citizens living in major population centers. While the world marches on and innovates with science and technology breakthroughs, those in Tea Party America want to stand still and stand shackled to our dependency on oil in a form of slavery and dependence to foreign nations.

What happened to independence? To self reliance? To conservative principles such as conservation? To wealth creation for individuals and for our nation? To saying “To hell with you if you want us to be dependent on your tea and volatile taxation !”

Let us never forget that the original patriots of the 1773 Tea Party threw overboard the product of an oppressive foreign nation and their East India Tea Company (EITC) who sought to relegate us to their servitude. Who severely misjudged the will of the American people for independence and misjudged their desire for tea at any price.

A true modern day equivalent of a Tea Party acting in the spirit of those original patriots of 1773, would be one that threw overboard the product of foreign nations and their Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) who seek to relegate us to their servitude. Who severely misjudged the will of the American people for independence and misjudged their desire for gasoline at any price.

A true Tea Party patriot would “make their own tea” for the equivalent of $0.40 cents a gallon of gas, and not make populist moronic proclamations such as “if you elect me I’ll give you $2.00 a gallon gasoline.” How’s that for a loaded but true paragraph?

Well, deep breath, rant over, a prayer for my fellow conservatives and on to what Gas Cars can’t do.

You’ve heard what the electric car can’t do. I thought it would be fun to flip the tables and talk about what gas car can’t do and why the electric car and electricity will be the motive power of the future.

With 40,000 miles clocked in the drivers seat of EV’s for the past four years, I’m qualified to give you a lay person’s practical experience.

In no special order.

Gas cars are not emission free. They will never be emission free. Our American cities are saturated by emissions and visible particulate matter. 15 million citizens live In Los Angeles and are surrounded by and breath with every breath, toxic visible emissions caused by our transportation fleet. These emissions from transportation account for 70% to 80% of the total emissions and related health issues and cost in our major cities. The electric car is 100% emissions free when powered by renewable energy.

Gas cars rely on a commodity, oil, that is in the hands of the few, desired by many, protected at great cost by superpowers, and is becoming harder, riskier and more expensive to extract. Gas will always increase in price and in my lay person’s opinion, looking at 2-3 billion more consumers educated by facebook and the Internet to what the good life is, will exponentially increase in price in coming years. Electric cars can run on dozens of sources of electricity including hydro, geothermal wind, and solar. With renewable sources of energy, Mother Nature has never raised her price.

Gas cars rely on 100% on Gas Stations, that is simple to understand. What is harder to comprehend is the conveyance system and related cost/pollution to get that oil from Saudi Arabia, Canada, Alaska, the Gulf of Mexico and Venezuela to your gas tank. Electric cars powered by solar energy (generated during the day)have a conveyance system of 30 feet. From the rooftop to your batteries. Electric cars are charged (from the existing grid) primarily in the safety and comfort of your home while you sleep.

Owners of Gas cars can’t make their own gas. Perhaps an asterisk is appropriate here. If you’ve got two acres and want to grow corn, ferment it and then distill it (against the law) to ethanol, perhaps you can make your own ethanol gasoline equivalent. For electric car owners, if they wish, its 100 sq ft of rooftop or backyard and you can make your own solar fuel to drive 12,000 miles a year for the equivalent of $0.40 a gallon of gas.

Gas cars are poisonous. If you disagree, (please don’t try this) roll up your windows and port the exhaust of a gas car to the interior cabin, please change your mind before you die. Electric cars are not poisonous.

Gas cars require the national policy of protection of gasoline supply. America spends untold trillions of dollars to secure the safe stable deliver of gasoline to our population from overseas. Nearly 70% of what you put into gas cars tank is imported. Electric cars run on electricity. No matter the source, electricity is domestically supplied and not imported. The money, the profits, and the jobs stay in America.

Gas cars are inefficient machines. The most efficient gas cars convert gasoline to motive power at less than 33% efficiency. Electric cars convert electricity to motive power at 90% efficiency.

Gas Cars are noise polluters. OK, I admit to being fond of the exhaust notes of a high performance car. I love the sound of being at a Formula One, Indy Car or NASCAR race (I’ve been to all three) But I’m fond of those in the same way I am fond of listening to a P51 Mustang at an air show, or listening to a 1900’s 4-8-2 Baldwin Steam Locomotive pulling out from a rail yard on an exhibition run down the rails. In the city or on the street where I live, I prefer less noise pollution. We’ve moved on past these complicated mechanical marvels. The Eclectic car is quiet.

Gas cars are heavy on maintenance cost. It cost a lot to keep those 400 moving parts in tip top operating condition! Friction brakes are so last decade!

Gas cars evolve slowly. They remain mostly unchanged in their DNA from 100 years ago. We’ve moved from the Radio to the B&W TV, to Color TV, to the LCD TV, to the Internet in less than 50 years. I won’t even pretend to understand how that 10 mega pixel image is transferred to a chip the size of a postage stamp that holds 1000 of images without a moving part. Electric cars are evolving rapidly.

Well, That’s a good start, please feel free to add to my list and to share it broadly. And please don’t diss me for being a conservative. We are all Americans and we are diverse and imaginative of every creed color and belief system… including the Tea Party.

God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy, Billy Currington

Cheers

Peder

Mini-E #183, 33,000 miles powered by sunshine.